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Musing about systems... [Sep. 25th, 2007|11:19 pm]
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[fullcontactmuse]
[Tags|, ]
[Current Location |The Clark Zoo]
[mood |thoughtfulthoughtful]
[music |Halo 2 on the Xbox]

I think about systems. You could say that I think about systems a lot. In role-playing games and in LARPs especially, the system is that necessary evil that, all too frequently, gets in the way of telling the story. The system is there to resolve disputes; to prevent the scenario where one yells out, "Bang! You're dead!" While the other voice rings out with, "No, I'm not! You missed!" The system is supposed to facilitate the story, not get in the way; not bog down the fun with complicated rules and boring sessions where people are rolling dice or throwing hand signs. I don't know if you have been there, but I have and it is no fun. So I can assure you, it is my intention that these rules enhance the storytelling.

So when I see people not having fun because of the system, I think about it. And I think about it. In this case, I have been thinking about combat since the gun fight between Neeko and Cantankerous Kitty Chou at the last game. Several things happened that prevented any one from getting hit, except for Minli, and that's because he was being used for cover.

"My god. Do we really suck or is this guy really that good?"

Stress Point 1: Two combat monsters going after one another. Neeko, breaking into the room where the thugs were holing up and looking for a ride out of Dodge, had a pile of junk to hide behind, lender her partial cover (+4 diff to hit) and Kitty Chou was using Minli as a meat shield (+6 diff).

"Dodge this."

Both characters have high dodges for an Active Defense, and when I say "high", I am talking around 7 or 8 for a skill level. While an Active Defense, such as Dodge, Parry, or Block, can only be used once per turn, in a one-on-one fight, the combatants could sit there spinning their wheels, unable to hit their target.

"They had a lot of weapons, Mister - and they were shootin' bullets."

An over all thing that has been making me think is the "beat the Difficulty Die" rule and I've been thinking about changing it to "meet or beat the Difficulty Die", to make successes a little more common (playability) and reduce some perceived complexity (back to the playability thing again...). In addition to that that, if all things are even, the Action modifier is the same as the Difficulty modifier the chance of success is only 42%. Under the proposed change, the chance jumps to 58%.

"Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?"

Large chunks of the system is modeled after, if not directly mugged and rifled for loose change, Steve Jackson Game's GURPS system. Mind you, we've changed the scale of how things work.

"Boy, do I hate being right all the time!"

The first thing I'm looking at doing is cutting down the defense bonus. Right now, the base defense is the character's Agility rating. In GURPS, your Dodge score is calculated by adding your Dexterity (Agility) to your Health (Vigor) and then dividing the sum by 4, producing a Dodge of 5 for the average character (10 is the average GURPS attribute value), which puts the successful Dodge as a 4.6% chance of success for the average character. The 2d6 Compare curveThe bell curve changes bit in range between the 3d6 of GURPS and the 2d6 compare. (I'm open to suggestions on what to call this system by the way.)

However, the halving of the agility does not make a lot of sense when you view it in relation to rolls and the skills. I think that halving the bonus that comes from the skill seems to be a better candidate for reduction. Going forward, we're going to be applying this change to the system where Dodge skill level is halved, round up, before being applied to the Base Defense.

"There are two types of tragedies in life. One is not getting what you want, the other is getting it."

Here's a link to an interactive means of playing with the dice in a visual way.
linkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: [info]bluewingedcat
2007-09-26 02:51 pm (UTC)

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Ties going to the roller I think is the single best improvement to the system out of the entire post here. I must admit that that was the strangest thing to me out of the entire experience.
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[User Picture]From: [info]fullcontactmuse
2007-09-26 09:04 pm (UTC)

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There is one Boon right now that adds to Dodge and that's Combat Reflexes, which make Dodge roll calculate out like: Agiligity + (Dodge Skill / 2, round up) + 1

So there is that already in the system. The big issue is that I didn't bother to model the dice mechanics to make sure I understood how steep that +1 to difficulty could be. In short, "Bad Rory! No biscuit!"
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[User Picture]From: [info]fullcontactmuse
2007-09-26 11:12 pm (UTC)

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Yay afternoon break. Instead of wandering outside enjoying the sunshine and trimming split ends, let's geek.
You get an afternoon break? I get long delays between building setup packages and installing them on a VM to see if I was able to get MSIEXEC to do what I want it to. Fortunately, that's an automated process. I push a button and walk away.

It's spurts of coding followed by periods of waiting. ;)
Yay afternoon break. Instead of wandering outside enjoying the sunshine and trimming split ends, let's geek.
Yes, the +6 and +4 were grabbed out of my ass that day. In short, yes, a bad call and those are being specifically addressed along with modifiers for called shots to the head, vitals, et cetera, since cover tends to follow the same basic constraints.
What about a Boon called "Nine Lives" that ignores (or reverses!) the bad die once per session when someone is actively trying to kill you? How about "Trick Shot" that halves cover/concealment penalties?

Feng Shui may have other colorful suggestions. I seem to recall something like "Signature Weapon" that gives a bonus when using your favorite gun - though overlap with Gunslinger might be interesting or inappropriate.
Hmmm. I'll have to think about that. [info]sylvan and I were talking about possibly using creating a system where a player could spend XP to dictate a die roll. Kind of like "Karma Points" in Shadowrun or "Force Points" in Westend Game's Star Wars.
In conclusion: let people buy Slays instead of nerfing armor. ;-)
Nah, I haven't touched the armor rules. :p But I have been thinking about the balance between gritty and cinematic and I think where I want it to lie is where damage, if hit, can easily be lethal, but the fight between the skilled should be epic.
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[User Picture]From: [info]fullcontactmuse
2007-09-26 09:05 pm (UTC)

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Absolutely. No plot ever survives contact with the players. ;)

Now the big question is which of those quotes up there can you identify? :D
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[User Picture]From: [info]fullcontactmuse
2007-09-26 11:14 pm (UTC)

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Yeah, that would be cheating. ;)
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[User Picture]From: [info]fullcontactmuse
2007-10-02 02:20 am (UTC)

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Yes, it's a very good movie. :)
From: [info]johnathan
2007-09-27 12:30 am (UTC)

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for combat(at least) it might just be easy to use active/passive rules. If the defender is wants to attack, they only use base dodge(aka the whole agility with no mods) and if they chose to "defend" they get the whole score (agility and skill and any mods from abilitys).

You can even make it the other way around if you want to hurt people. Skill is base dodge(min of 0) and you only get to add the agility if you push it.
So in a combat with 2 combat monsters if they are both on full attack they might have dodges of 1-4, not 7-9. However once someone decides to cut and run, the dodge goes right up.
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[User Picture]From: [info]fullcontactmuse
2007-09-28 06:24 am (UTC)

Re: Questions

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I'm still musing over the subject, but here's some thought experiments that may or may not matter.
1) Can you really dodge a bullet (muzzle velocity: 800-3000 feet per second) or does evasive action taken to disrupt aim amount to the same thing?
2) What about a laser weapon (c = 186,000 MILES per second)?
3) Should dodge stack with stationary cover (junk pile)?
4) Should dodge stack with mobile cover (meatshield)?
1) You're not really dodging the bullet per se, but rather you're taking evasive action and trying to get out of the way. Unless you're Neo and then all bets are off.
2) This is really the same thing as 1. for all intents and purposes. You can't move faster than the gun or the light beam, but you could move faster than the one pulling the trigger.
3) and 4) Yes, I think it should. The key thing to remember you get exactly one oppurtunity to Dodge per round (unless a Boon or a skill says otherwise); meaning that you may be able to dodge the first shooter, but you can't dodge the second one.
Tangent that I imagine will be addressed in the modifier table:
5) Do kneeling/sitting/prone positions give you virtual cover?
5a) ...at the expense of dodge?
5b) ...but a more stable firing platform?
5) Yes, see my most recent post.
5a) I think you would still get a dodge (you can always duck or roll out of the way).
5b) That sounds reasonable enough, but I would need to think about that in some more detail.